Illogical by TRUTH

EVERETT: Our schools had less facilities, less

educational material. Our teachers were taught

substantially less, even with advanced degrees

compared to white counterparts. But even with

that, we have produced some of the most brilliant

minds in the world. And HBCU graduates are providing

leadership throughout this world and throughout

this country.

TERRANCE: You're listening to Illogical by Truth.

This podcast decodes the language, decisions,

and hidden areas of local power that often seems

illogical to residents. The goal of this podcast

is to empower people to engage locally and to

understand how significant it is to be aware and

active. At the local level. Once local government

is logical, it will become meaningful and provide

the benefits that allows for people to live a

thriving life. Hello, everyone. You're listening

to Illogico by Truth. And we have a very special

guest today, someone who I had the chance to admire

from afar and up close. I remember when I was

hired by the NAACP, I realized how intertwined

historical Black institutions are. And I've seen

where fraternities, sororities, HBCUs, sort of,

organizing or activism organizations or advocacy

organizations, all existed as one unit to produce

freedom for black people. And then that's the

moment I began to see the ripples of your leadership

touch me. And I want to introduce Dr. Everett

Ward through a story. So I was a principal in

South East Raleigh. And the school I was the principal

of had long-term suspended students. In my school,

people don't normally visit. I don't normally

don't get guests. Even the parents rarely come

and visit their kids while they're at our school.

Most of the kids are suspended from their schools.

So usually this is like a dumping ground for kids

who are having trouble. And at the time I was

located in Raleigh, North Carolina. I was in Southeast

part of the city and Dr. Ward was president of

St. Augustine College University. And I called

him and said, I would love if you can come and

visit our school. And we had a garden in the school

and you came over and you talked about your story

of having to live on a farm and you talked about

the different vegetable that we had in the garden

and the significance I had to you and what you

remember as a child. And so with that Dr. Ward,

I want to welcome you to the show. Thank you.

EVERETT: Thank you so much Dr. Ruth. And thank

you for the invitation to be here. And thank you

for remembering that story. I remember it very

well. And about the creative leadership that you

were providing to our young people in the community.

I didn't live on a farm. But I had very fond memories

of gardens and... What St. Augustine's was at

that time. In its earlier days, we had farms and

our students would farm on the campus and grow

their own vegetables. So now when I hear about

organic gardens and other things, I think about

1867 and what our students were ahead of themselves

at that time. So it's an honor to be here with

you.

TERRANCE: So Dr. Ward, we're glad to have you

here. You've held so many positions that are embedded

in with historical significance in the black community,

including being a former HBCU president, being

a former national president of Alpha Phi Alpha,

among others. What led you to leadership in these

areas and how does these roles create alignment

in your story?

EVERETT: Well, I think... All politics is local

and that's where it all began. I was very fortunate.

I am originally from Raleigh, North Carolina.

Generational. My father was a precinct chairman

and owned his own business. And then my mother

worked in corporate America, but she was a registrar.

So my sister and I were very fortunate that we

could see public service and, you know, coming

from a family that was committed to helping your

local community. National was not ever in my...

Horizon, but what we were always taught, and what

my life experience was, and continues to be, is

making life better for your community. That's

good. If that leads to state, regional, and national

opportunities all well and good, but everything

starts at the local, making sure the schools in

your community are serving the needs of all children,

making sure governmental resources that are built

on the taxes of all citizens are equally distributed

across the city, across the state, and across

the country. So that's what started. And then

also education has always been paramount for us.

Growing up in Raleigh, North Carolina, I tell

people, I had the benefit. Of being around Shaw

University, 1865, St. Augustine's in 1867, you

can imagine. What influence that has on a young

person to be able to see college professors, college

presidents who were family friends. Dr. James

Alexander Boyd is seventh president of St. Augustans.

Dr. Prezel Robinson, the eighth president, all

personal family friends. Elizabeth Cofield, professor

at Shaw University, working with Ella Baker and

students. So, you know, that was my experience

and continues to be. And that's why I want to

make sure future generations have that

TERRANCE: same benefit. I've had the opportunity

to hear you speak quite often and what amazed

me about your message that you deliver. I remember

one time you talked about how the bricks that

people walk on right now when they're on St. Augustans

College was laid by your ancestors. I'm not talking

about non-unknown figures in history that's linked

to you. You're naming names. Land where the bricks

lay is taken care of. It feels like it's a personal.

EVERETT: Oh, it is. It's my DNA. You know. St.

Augustine's had the only hospital built by students,

St. Agnes Hospital. And it was the primary medical

facility for our people for many years. And I

had the good fortune, along with many people,

to be born in that hospital, persons who received

medical care there. So when I look at the stones

and knowing that those stones were quarried by

students and built by students, and my great uncle

was a student there, who with no money was admitted

to St. Augustine's. And as a part of his admittance.

He helped work on the campus, helped build the

hospital that his great nieces and nephews would

be born in some many years later. So for me, our

HBCUs is the lifeblood of our community. That's

good. You know, so all of the cultural, intellectual,

medical. Foundations were on the campus of IHBCUs.

We can't forget the Shaw University. Had Leonard

Medical School, it had a school of pharmacy, it

had a law school. And we had a hospital, Howard

University, dental school, medical school. So

the medical professionals... That came into this,

were in this country. Looked like us. Many of

them came from those institutions.

TERRANCE: I wanna touch on... That role a little

bit later, because you're talking about a wave

of middle class, you're talking about a wave of

just a different tier in terms of class and who

you are and who you are to society. But I wanna

ask a question really quick. We started our podcast

with a look at Shaw University that's located

in Raleigh, North Carolina, in the capital of

North Carolina. And we use the legacy of Ella

Baker and SNCC to lay the foundation for why local

government is not only critical, but it's important

to the state and the country. Yes. What happened

in Shaw with Ella Baker changed the country. And

some of our listeners may or may not know. That

all of this was birthed in an HBCU, does this

idea that SNCC and what they were able to produce,

how it changed the country, changed our state,

changed our communities, did it surprise you that

that was birthed out of a HBCU?

EVERETT: No, not at all, because if you understand

the history of HBCUs, All students and faculty

and administrators who work at HBCUs understood

that we have a dual mission. Ah, that's good.

Our mission is not only to educate, but to create

a forum for the development of leaders. So HBCU

students leave understanding that they have a

dual mission. So you may be a chemistry major.

You may be a business major, but you understand

and you understood that your academic preparation

was not only to excel in your academic and career

aspirations, but there also comes with that a

high level of responsibility in the area of leadership.

So you have, for example, a Dr. James Shepherd

to leave Shaw University with a pharmacy degree.

But when you read his life story, he becomes the

founder of North Carolina Central University.

He advocates for a law school at North Carolina

Central. He becomes a part of, of the building

of a financial development in Durham. With North

Carolina Mutual and Mechanics and Farmers Bank.

So from St. Augustine's, you have a Ralph Campbell,

who's a graduate business administration major,

but becomes one of the first blacks elected statewide

in the state of North Carolina in 1992. So the

list goes on and on and on throughout the country.

So there's not a HBCU in this country that you

can name that you didn't have students to walk

through those. Gate. And become servant leaders,

but also excel professionally in their careers

as well. So that duality of understanding.

TERRANCE: Now in that duality, what role does

the legal restrictions around education of black

people play is sort of the birth, because what

I hear often are individuals who only see the

value of HBCUs historically. They go, oh, I can

understand since you weren't allowed to go to

school, Pauli Murray couldn't go to UNC, so she's,

NC Central was created, and so they made that

an alternative for her to go to.

EVERETT: That's right, she went to Howard's Law

School.

TERRANCE: That's right, and most people see it

historically. What is that narrative historically?

Like, why was HBCU's birth, like what is that

sort of?

EVERETT: Well, I think we have to, Dr. Roof, put

it in a historical context. We can never forget.

That. Slave ancestors. Did not have access to

education. It was against the law. For you to

teach enslaved or free African Americans how to

read and write. That's a narrative that's often

left out of the American story. So you think about

for hundreds of years, we were denied, legally

denied, and through violence. That you could not

teach our ancestors how to read and write. And

so it was in 1837. That Cheney University was

founded and became the first HBCU in this country.

So just think about from 1837, 186 years. Is the

period that we had access to higher education.

However... Harvard was founded in 1636. So even

with that vast span of hundreds of years, so Harvard

200 plus years of educating a population. Chaney

186 to today. But even with that, What we have

done as a people is unprecedented when you think

about the odds, the segregation, the lack of material,

and it wasn't until the Brown decision in this

country that segregation was ended. So our schools

had less facilities, less educational material.

Our teachers were taught substantially less, even

with advanced degrees compared to white counterparts.

But even with that, we have produced some of the

most brilliant minds in the world. And HBCU graduates

are providing leadership throughout this world

and throughout this country.

TERRANCE: Wow, I remember... Watching a documentary

on Pauli Murray. Yes. She was fascinated. By the

room she walked in when she seen not just the

NAACP attorneys that were there, but she was impressed

with the rigor, the brilliance, the cutting edge,

sort of legal minds that was sitting at Howard.

EVERETT: Oh yes.

TERRANCE: And when I tell that story in my classes

at NC State, I make sure I go not Harvard. How?

I mean, actually, we should understand the difference.

That the minds that were fighting and winning

these cases. And these cases were hyperlocal.

You're talking about school.

EVERETT: That's right.

TERRANCE: Separate but equal. You're talking about

buses. That's right. All this is local government.

That's exactly.

EVERETT: But what we have to also remember. The

conscious decision of Charles Hamilton Houston

to come to Howard with a substantial educational

background, but to be so dedicated that he said

that he was going to develop social engineers

through Howard's law school, that again, you will

graduate with a law degree, but with that duality

of a commitment to service. So Thurgood Marshall

comes from Lincoln University, denied opportunity

to enter the law school in Maryland, but comes

to Howard like Paul and Murray and countless others,

and they become the chief engineers to fight for

justice in this country. And he becomes the first

African-American to sit on the United States Supreme

Court, but he's a graduate of Lincoln University

and Howard University Law School. Give you another

example, here in Raleigh. Fred J. Carnage, for

whom Carnage Middle School is named, but it was

junior high. Whom I knew was a church member and

a longtime family friend. Graduate of Morgan State

University. Graduate of Howard University School

of Law. Comes to Raleigh, is an agent for North

Carolina Mutual Life Insurance, opens his own

practice, and becomes the only black on the appointed

Raleigh School Board at that time. So you see

that these men and women who walk through the

doors and the gates of our institutions have historically,

but even in contemporary society, continue to

be the leaders in their respective communities

throughout the country and throughout the world.

TERRANCE: I appreciate you highlighting that because...

All of these nuggets. They're really not hidden

at all. But it's untold. And I'm glad that you

put in the context of history. Now, you were president

of St. Augustine University, located in Raleigh,

North Carolina. Can you explain the importance

of that school to the history of the city of Raleigh

and to you?

EVERETT: Let me start with not only the city of

Raleigh, but the country.

TERRANCE: Oh, that's good.

EVERETT: St. Augustine's has produced exceptional

men and women who have been giving over our 150-plus

year history. Most HBCUs started out with the

foundation as teacher institutions who were producing

teachers because you have an enslaved population

that has no access to education. Well, who's going

to provide the teaching? Who's going to help?

And so most of our institutions started as teacher

institutions. St. Augustine's teacher institution,

as well as faith ministers in the Episcopal Church

founded by the Episcopal Church, all of our institutions

have evolved from that. But I think one of the

clear missions has, always been and continues

to be providing service. I'm a proud graduate

of North Carolina and T-State University. Uh...

The majority of African-American. Engineers come

from either North Carolina, ANT, Morgan State,

or FAMU. Can you imagine what the engineering

population from those institutions has done to

build this country? And we talked about the medical

doctors and the lawyers as well. One of my many

privileges of life, has been. To be president

of my alma mater. To have served St. Augustine's

for five years. As a good friend of mine says,

divine intervention puts you in places that you

had no imagination you would ever serve. So it

was my honor to serve. I love my alma mater. I

always will and will do everything I can to see

it sustained for future generations because as

a student. I know what St. Augustine's means.

My father attended St. Augustine's. My sister

attended St. Augustine's. So I know what it has

meant personally, but I also know what it means

for countless people to have access to education

and... So it is deep in my heart. I love her.

Until the day I die. I will always do what I can

for St. Augustine's, and even when I die, I shall

lay there in the chapel in state before they carry

me over to Mount Hope Cemetery. Yes.

TERRANCE: And I, you know... I want to not only...

Sit on the historical significance of HBCUs, Saint

Augustine. But I want to shift to the economic

influence. So for African Americans, the HBCU

was once the only institution that would allow

black students to earn a degree. What was the

economic impact of a growing, educated black population

in the South, in the country, in Raleigh, however

you wanted to? Like that economic case, I don't

hear often.

EVERETT: No, you don't. And it's one that we need

to talk more about. Let's talk about the university

first.

TERRANCE: Okay.

EVERETT: St. Augustine's, Shaw University, and

all of our HBCUs, number one is a business. But

we just happen to be in the business of education.

When you look at our institutions, they give so

much to the economic foundation of their local

communities as well as the state and the nation.

Roughly about 84 million. Contributed by Shaw

University. About 122 million from St. Augustine's.

This is based on a study that was done in 2015

by the North Carolina Independent Colleges and

Universes. Outstanding study. When you talk about

the people that are employed on the campus, the

economic interest for the supplies and goods that

we purchase as a business. That's good. The employees

that we have and faculty, but more importantly,

think about the economic impact that the students

have. That's true. Many of the students come,

but many will stay in the community upon their

graduation. Look at the tax base that they produce.

The intellectual capital that is given from these

graduates. That what makes North Carolina, and

now Raleigh is identified as one of the top places

in the country, a point of destination. But it

is a point of destination in 2023 because of the

work and the contributions of our HBCUs and the

African-American community in collaboration with

it. We pay taxes, we contribute to the intellectual

capital, just like everybody else. So now that

Raleigh is a point of destination, I say it's

a point of destination because of years of preparation

that courageous political leaders. Educators and

others and business leaders. Help make it. You

cannot underestimate. Of Clarence Lightner being

the first. And only African-American mayor of

Raleigh in 1973, a graduate of North Carolina

Central University, and a business owner, chairman

of the board of trustees at St. Augustine's for

many, many years, Joseph Sansom, a graduate of

Morehouse College. Bank executive with Mechanics

and Farmers Bank, all of these individuals, countless

and countless who contributed to the upward mobility

of this city. And now we are a point of destination.

My only observation and key concern is that as

we develop, as we grow, that we don't lose and

abandon African American history and that the

totality of the Rollets story is not. Properly

told. I served on the Raleigh Historical Properties

Commission for many years. And under the leadership

of Raph Campbell. Miss Vivian Irvin and others.

A book was written with Linda Henry Simmons, Linda

Edmondson called Culture Town, that talks about

the African American communities in this city

and how we needed to preserve those. Good friend

of mine, Carmen Wimberley, has now written a book

about African-American classmates. It is a masterful

publication. I encourage everyone to read these

documents because Smokey Holla is now Glenwood.

TERRANCE: That's it, that's it, that's it.

EVERETT: Now you talk about where Shaw University

is. You talk about St. Augustine. All Oberlin.

The work that was done there with newly freed

African Americans, building their own communities,

Method Community, Fourth Ward, you know, all of

these communities contributed to the vitality

of this city.

TERRANCE: And you know what's amazing? I once...

What I enjoy to do when I go to different cities.

I enjoy finding a local historian. And having

that individual walk me around or drive me around.

So Carmen Carpenter, who wrote one of the books

that you mentioned.

EVERETT: That's right, I called her Carmen Wimbley.

Wimbley was when we were in school, yeah.

TERRANCE: Yes, yes, yes. That's right, that's

right. And she took me in the car. And the tour

was showing me the homes. So that I can see with

my own eyes the homes of the different leaders

in the community. And she introduced each home

by the HBCU and by the career. She was showing

me that that home ownership, that property tax,

like she took me to each neighborhood and she

took me through different classes. So there was

striations within the black community. Just as

it is in the white community. That's exactly right.

And she was walking me through the homes the names

of families, the first here, the first there.

EVERETT: That's right.

TERRANCE: And it's amazing the footprint that

Shaw and the St. Augustine has as HBCUs in our

city. Oh yes. And the upward mobility that it

created across the South. And so you've run into

people who have these stories and these narratives.

But that local history, those homes of the souls

and the people who live there.

EVERETT: Yes, yes. And how they can- I call it

the front porch love. That's good. The front porch

love. Growing up, you would sit, I was with a

good friend of mine recently and we were sitting

on her front porch Monday. Wow. Afternoon just

sitting on her front porch, a granddaughter of

Charles Henry Boyer, Edna Ballantine sitting on

her front porch. True story there, Charles Henry

Boyer graduated from Yale in 1896. An African-American

man graduates from Yale in 1896. But guess what

he does? He comes to St. Augustine's and becomes

a professor there. And worked there for 40 years.

Now, you talk about a strong, courageous man to

leave Connecticut. With a degree from Yale in

1896 and move to the South.

TERRANCE: That's good, that's good.

EVERETT: And move to the segregated South and

say I wanna be a part of the change that happens

for this university. Well, at that time, junior

college at that time.

TERRANCE: And I only have a few questions left

that I want to... So this podcast tries to help

people make sense of local politics. And HBCUs

are often an afterthought. They normally think

about their city council or school board or whatever

it may be, but very rarely on the forefront of

their minds is the role of the HBCU. What should

we pay more attention to in terms of the role

that the HBCUs play in cities and local government?

What do you recommend that we see more clearly

about their role?

EVERETT: Well, first of all, when I was president,

I said to my students, you have ownership in your

local government because you are now a resident

of the city of Raleigh. And we emphasize voter

registration. That's a part of your academic preparation

that you have to be citizen. I mean, that's the

Ella Baker tradition. You've got to be an active

participant in your destination. And so when you

think about the resources that are around our

institutions, that you can do, students at North

Carolina Central have a precinct on their campus.

North Carolina ANT, precinct on their counts.

That's right. That is evidence of the importance

of civic engagement. Because civic engagement,

in my estimation... Is just as important as academic

education. Because you are a citizen and you have

a right to be a part of preserving this democracy

and advancing it and protecting it because we

see now that there's a major threat to democracy.

I recommend to your listeners two books that I've

enjoyed greatly. One is by Dr. A favor who's a

graduate of North Carolina A&T State University

and it calls. Shelter in the Time of a Storm.

And he gives a historical narrative on how activism

on historically black colleges has a long history

of engagement and involvement. The second is by

Professor Suttel, who has written a book called

Campus to Counter Civil Rights Activism. And it's

a strong narrative on 1960 to 1963. And it talks

about students from Shaw University, St. Augustine's

and North Carolina Central, and how they were

involved actively in breaking down walls of segregation

and discrimination. One of my strong mentors and

someone that I admire so much is very prominent

in the publication, and that's Dr. David Forbes,

who was a student at Shaw University. And when

our leaders and student leaders at North Carolina

A&T on February 1st, 1960, set in, but on February

12th, 1960 here in Raleigh, students from Shaw

University, St. Augustine's, with the leadership

of students. Set in in what at that time was called

Cameron Village. And it was. That was February

the 12th, but it was in April of that same year,

Easter weekend, that students from HBCUs all across

the country assembled here in Raleigh under the

leadership of Ella Baker as an executive with

the Southern Christian Leadership Council. And

then Dr. King was here, Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth

was here. And on this date, in April of 1960,

David Forbes and students formed Baron Baron others.

Form the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee.

Better referred to as SNCC. And from there, university

students HBCU students throughout the South and

throughout the country, changed the political

landscape of this country. And we sit here today

as benefactors of their leadership. So that's

why we have to celebrate David Fowles. We have

to celebrate Ellen Nunn. We have to celebrate

these young college students who were courageous

enough to say, we're going to march. We're going

to participate in nonviolent movement activities

for freedom and democracy. And the fight. And

the struggle is not over.

TERRANCE: That's good.

EVERETT: And that's why our students must continue.

That's why I support Black Lives Matter. I support

everything that students do. That's good. Because

what they do is setting, who would have thought

that what David Forbes and Ellen Nidd-Lund did

in 1960, we'd be the benefactors of in 2023. That's

so good. So that's why I celebrate them and thank

them every chance I have.

TERRANCE: You know, it's amazing to me. I've seen

a map and it showed all the sit-ins around the

country, at least the ones that are known. And

it almost... Align neatly with HBCUs. Oh yes.

I mean it's almost a direct correlation map to

HBCUs. And so people question the political, and

especially these are local citizens. That's connected

nationally.

EVERETT: One of the biggest, Dr. Roof, you'll

appreciate this, one of the biggest, one criticism

that I received as president, and I took it with

such great pride, was the polling place at the

Tarber

TERRANCE: Road Center.

EVERETT: And I would lead the march with our students

from St. Augustine's with the pep band out front,

marching with our students to go vote. Wow. And

someone said to me in a meeting, they said, oh,

the president is just too involved. He's too engaged.

And I said, I'd take that with a badge of honor.

If that's my criticism, I'll go down fighting

every day of the week. To see the students voting

and having with their right to vote an opportunity

to make a decision about the direction of the

city that they lived in. Why is it students at

St. Augustine's cannot have the same access to

good health care and good food? They got Bojangles,

at that time, Kentucky Fried Chicken and Cookout.

But as a proud graduate of North Carolina State

University, when I was in graduate school, I could

get a smoothie, I could get a salad. I could have

all of that before I went to my graduate classes.

But we're in a food desert. So you talk about

the health disparities and the continuation of

forms of discrimination. Yes. Yes. We can't get

a streetscape going to St. Augustine, but I can

get five roundabouts when I go to North Carolina

State, but I'm a proud Wolfpacker.

TERRANCE: That is actually true.

EVERETT: But I want you to, but I think we have

to be cognizant of the unbalanced distribution

of resources.

TERRANCE: And I want to, this is a question that

I personally had, and I want to just get your

perspective on it. We knew at the time, and I'm

going back to Ella Baker for a second, she was

in Atlanta before coming to start SNCC. Yes. And

most people wondered why come back to Raleigh,

why come back to Shaw, why go to HBCU? At this

time, you're with King. I mean, you can go wherever

you wanna go. And I don't know if you know, I

don't know anybody. We'd love to get your thoughts

on that location.

EVERETT: It was because she was a proud graduate

of Shaw. She had strong relationships with the

Rollerwake Citizens Association through her classmate,

Mrs. Jurgen, Dr. Fleming, who was president of

the Rollerwake Citizens Association. So there

was a foundation here. And remember. Ella Baker

was from Warren County, North Carolina. And she

had traveled with her grandfather, who was a minister

throughout Virginia and Northeastern North Carolina.

And he wanted her to come to Shaw. But when she

came to Shaw University, she got that foundation

of public service. And remember, as a black female,

She worked for the NAACP in the 40s and 30s and

40s. And she traveled alone, organizing NAACP

chapters throughout the South. So she came to

SCLC and she came to this conference. With a long

history of activism and service. So she brought

with her a wealth of knowledge of local organizing

because Ella Baker's... Foundation was, was that

you should not. Build your legacy on charismatic

leadership. The charismatic leader is not the

foundation. What Ella Baker's foundation was is

that local people have to have the freedom to

organize locally. Because when that charismatic

leader leaves the city, the local people have

to institutionalize. Foundation for influence

at the local level. So she was a strong proponent

of local citizen engagement and to read her and

to know her, to read her speeches, to talk to

persons who were a part. I was very fortunate

as a part of my graduate work at North Carolina

State. To help coordinate the 40th anniversary

of the founding of SNCC when it was held here.

Yeah. At Shaw, right? At Shaw University. My professor,

Dr. Walter Jackson and Dr. Gayle O'Brien and Dr.

Floyd Hayes, it was a real campaign to bring the

original. People back Julian Bond Cleveland sellers

Marion Barry to bring those individuals back here,

Diane Nash and others, and to bring them here,

to hear from them what the real mission of SNCC,

the original mission of SNCC was. And for them

to tell you about Ella Baker. And that's something.

And then we did a memoir. In the Raleigh City

Museum, there's a permanent exhibit about the

civil rights movement in Raleigh. And a lot of

that is due to Vivian Irvin and others who pushed

to make sure that was a part of the Raleigh City

Museum.

TERRANCE: And I'm just, I asked that question,

because I just appreciate how you have allowed

for us to understand the rich history that HBCUs

has had in local government, local quality of

life, activism, countrywide. Yes, yes. I wanna

close out with this question. What is the future

of HBC? We have a drum beat of questions that

gave us why the history was significant, why the

story is significant, why it contributes to the

economy of cities. But what do you think is the

future of HBCUs role in local economies and cities?

What are you forecasting?

EVERETT: Well, I think our institutions must continue

to be a part of that economic foundation. I also

believe that we have to continue to produce the

leaders that come. You know, so I see future mayors,

I see future state senators, I see future governors,

I see future presidents, members of Congress coming

from our institutions as contributors to society.

I see entrepreneurs, I see medical doctors, I

see lawyers, I see dentists, I see them all. This

country cannot survive. Without the full participation

of all citizens in this country and all educational

institutions. And if we are going to be a nation

that's going to be globally competitive, we've

got to understand that we cannot afford to leave

anyone behind educationally. So HBCUs are more

relevant today. Than they have ever been. Because

of the intellectual capital, the cultural richness

that must continue to come from those institutions.

You cannot survive in this nation without historically

black colleges and universities. And so we have

to continue to support them. We have to continue

to respect and honor their legacy. But also understand

that we also must keep our eyes onward and upward

to the future. And so if we have to make modifications,

we will make them. We've always made them. You

know, we aren't farmers anymore.

TERRANCE: That's right, that's right, that's right.

EVERETT: But we need to be.

TERRANCE: Yeah, that's good, that's good, that's

good. Now, Dr. Ward, you are well known in many

circles, both national, state, local. How can

people follow you? Where can they find you? How

can they follow you?

EVERETT: Well, you know, I'm in that Ella Baker

tradition. I don't like to focus on the person.

TERRANCE: Ah, that's good, that's good.

EVERETT: Follow the work. Ah, that's good. And

I think... If you want to know where I am, always

look where good work is being done for the upward

mobility of our people. And that's where you'll

find me. I decided many, many years ago that old

song we've all heard so much in the African American

church. Is let the work I've done speak for me.

And when I'm resting in my grave and nothing else

can be said, let the work I've done speak for

me. So when you lay me down at Mount Hope Cemetery

that was founded in 1872, as the oldest black

cemetery, that's where I shall lay. And don't

worry about charismatic cameras and that kind

of thing. Look at the work. And that's what the

testimony needs to be. And so we got a lot of

more years to give and I'm gonna keep giving.

TERRANCE: Well, it's an honor. I respect your

leadership tremendously. And I just wanna thank

you for being on Illogical by Truth, edited by

Air Fluence, and I look forward to seeing you

on the next episode. So thank you for joining

us.